Charismatic Theology Nathan  

God is Not In Control…?

NOTE (1/12/18): We’re all learning and growing.  Some of the stuff I’ve written in these old posts may no longer be exactly what I believe or think, or at least may not be articulated the way I’d do it nowadays.  I preserve them in an attempt it to be transparent about my journey, and in the hopes that readers may still glean some insight from the core ideas found here.  Thanks for journeying with me!

 

 

In the Christian life, we often hear things like “all things work out for the good”, “God will have his way”, “There’s a reason for everything” (Justin Bieber was quoted as saying this when interrogated on his views on abortion in the instance of rape – interesting tidbit for ya), and so on.  There’s verses for this, too – “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him” (Romans 8:28), and, “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts” (Isaiah 55:9).  So whenever things happen that we don’t understand, I guess we can safely just quote any of the above verses and move on then…right?

Well, for those of us who live in a hole and haven’t seen what’s happening in the great wide world, I’ve got news: some pretty bad stuff has happened.  Genocides, famines, HIV, cancer, nuclear disasters…There’s plenty more.

What Christians tend to do is try not to think of this type of thing too much, cuz it can really mess with the idea of God being good, can’t it?  It’s much easier to sweep it under the rug of “it’s God’s will” and hop off that train of thought while we still can.

Well, let’s stay on the train for once.   As we chug along, we find we start to question God.  Vice Verses, a song on Switchfoot’s latest album, laments “where is God in the hurricane?  Where is God in the genocide?”

If you dare to go on, you’ll find the train track divides.  At this point you’ve got two choices – believe that God is not all-powerful, or else He is just not all-loving.  What else is there?

Well, I have one suggestion.  What if God isn’t exactly in control the way we understand it?

I explained this idea more in-depth a year ago, check out “In the Beginning” for details.  But let me quickly brief you on what I mean.  God created everything, and it was good.  Then, He put us in charge of the earth (Genesis 1:26), giving us free will to do as we please.  And we messed it up.  Did God do it?  No.  Did He want us to do it?  I don’t think so.  But because of the natural laws of the earth, messing the earth up with sin has taken its toll.  So who is responsible for earth being messed up?  Us!

God wants us to live happy – if He didn’t, He wouldn’t have started us out in a paradise.  But above all, He wants us to have the freedom to choose whether to serve Him on earth or not.  THAT is His will.  So you see, the issues I’ve brought up don’t so much involve His will as much as OUR will.

I mean, if everything that happens is just the way God likes it, why did Jesus tell us to pray “Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven”?  Why do we pray at all?  Why are millions perishing around the world while 2 Peter 3:9 says “[God is] not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance”?

We are the hands and feet of Christ – He moves through us.  John Wesley went as far as to say, “God does nothing except in response to believing prayer.”  Another famous guy (the name escapes me) said, “Don’t ask where God is in the world’s problems.  Ask where God’s people are.”

“Okay”, you say, “I get it – help people out.  But what about things that we can’t change?  Hurricanes, HIV, that kind of stuff?”

Well, according to Scriptures, Jesus said we’ve got authority over that stuff too.  Jesus never blessed a storm, and since all authority has been given to Him (Matthew 28:18, Luke 10:19), we go in His name and speak to things such as the weather, diseases, etc, and they must line up with God’s word.

Pretty straightforward…till we come to a rock that does not budge.  And this is the major issue I want to address in this article.

So this rock stays put.  We pray, we command, we fast and beg, we do everything we know to do.  And nothing happens.  Speaking from experience, recently three friends/acquaintances of mine died of cancer, one of whom I prayed for multiple times to be healed.  Many would say at this point, “I guess it must have just been God’s will.”

But was it?  Jesus healed all who came to him, and commanded us to do the same (John 14:12, Matthew 10:7-8).  He said if we had faith as small as a mustard seed, we could move a mountain (Matthew 17:20), and that Jesus would do whatever we ask in His name so that the Son may bring glory to the Father (John 14:13).

“So you’re saying if they don’t get healed, we didn’t have enough faith!”  I am NOT saying that.  “So you’re saying that God doesn’t use tragedies for His purposes and to teach us things?  Not saying that either.  “So you’re saying we’re never supposed to suffer on earth.”  I want to put a word out on this subject soon, but for now I will just say that’s ALSO not what I’m saying.  “So you’re saying I could have done something more!”  No…not even saying that.  My heart goes out to all who fight for a loved one – I know the urgency one feels, and that they spare no expense in attempting to save them.  No way do I want to tarnish someone’s sacrifice.

Here’s what I am saying: I’ve seen too many people encounter tragedies and create theology from them that Jesus never taught in an attempt bring comfort, instead of admitting they simply don’t understand why things happened the way they did.  I’m saying that it’s ok to say “I don’t know”.

In fact, I believe it’s the best response, as we only know in part.  That and to draw near to the Father of all comfort to get the peace that goes beyond all understanding (Philippians 4:7).  It’s better than making God out to be a sadistic father who hurts and kills His children to teach them lessons (or whatever other theology you fancy).  The point of Christianity isn’t to explain everything in existence – only God can actually do that.  And we are simply supposed to know Him.  A relationship is based on communication and and trust, not facts and knowledge.

I pray I would not be misunderstood here.  A conclusion that doesn’t explain tragedies isn’t the most satisfying, I know.  But I felt I had to put something out there to warn people not to attribute all problems they encounter to “the will of God”.  We are in a war.  We do have an enemy, and though we have authority through Jesus we don’t yet know everything about our enemy.  Let’s not make Job’s mistake of attributing his disasters to God (Job 1:21) – recall that although God did allow it, it was the devil who actually brought the tragedies to Job’s house (this could warrant a whole study itself, which I have not yet concluded myself).

So let’s understand the Father’s true heart to give life to the full – that’s what He wants to do, but He has willed to give us the earth – and now we’ve got to fight for it.   I want to encourage us to press in to what God does want to do.  Heidi Baker shares that she prayed for 200 blind people before she saw a single blind eye open – and since then she has seen much more success.  Draw your own conclusions, but I say we all could use some of her tenacity.  Rees Howells found that the Holy Spirit wants to answer all our prayers, but only wants us to pray the prayers He gives us.  So if we do not know God’s will in a situation, we must go to Him and ask, and when we get a response, pray until we have confidence that it will happen.

I love you all, and especially for those who are grappling with tragedies – this article was for you, so that you would be strengthened in your faith and keep marchin’ on.  If you have questions, Revival or Riots wrote a simpler article dealing more specifically with healing and the sovereignty of God here, which may help as well.  Bless ya all tons.

11 thoughts on “God is Not In Control…?

  1. PL Taylor

    I REALLY like this article, its so sane, and very true! I do want to add however, that I do think its often our faith…because He did say ANYTHING is possible. BUT, you CAN’T stick healing on someone, unless there is a gift of the Spirit involved, because their will is involved, and God won’t allow us to step over that line. So…when it comes to healing, its everyone of us that is responsible for KNOWING that God WANTS US HEALED! There are MANY, MANY scriptures to prove that…no time or room for them all here. But God WILL take a situation and turn it around for our good; sometimes He does it so well that it looks like He meant it that way to begin with! But that doesn’t mean that He caused it in the first place!

  2. admin

    Thanks for sharing, I’m with you. I’ve even heard testimonies of people who have gotten healed that didn’t want to get healed, so I’d say the key element is the faith of the person ministering. I follow a lot of Curry Blake’s teaching if you’ve heard of him. Be blessed!

  3. J Scott

    So refreshing to see someone tackle this difficult issue without neutering it with Christianese, flacid theology. There may actually be a root cause & effect reason why the victorious promises of The Master don’t seems to play out very well in our modern lives. If we strip away the Churchanity doctrine and start taking Jesus at His Word, we will notice that all of His promises aren’t nearly as unconditional as Paul would have us believe. Then consider what is the one area in our lives where even the best Christian cannot appear any differently than the unsaved person… money. No, I’m not talking about how we handle it verses a non-Christian, or how we “steward” it (as if The Creator wants any part of that equation).

    Hang with me, because this next part requires us to completely separate ourselves for the indoctrination that has taken place from birth. “Money”, or currency as is more accurately put, is something that we give massive amounts of our time to. We can’t buy, sell, eat, or frankly live without it. Even a ministry or a church will die without it. To say that we ascribe worth to it is an understatement (ascribimg worth to something is to worship it). But that’s just the way it is, right? Im not so sure That’s where my journey began over two years ago and it has shaken me to my core, but has also freed my mind.

    One of the most troubling things Jesus said was that it was impossible to serve God and money at the same time. Now before we go all defensive theology on that, His statement speaks for itself. We as Christians love take obedience issues and turn them into degrees-of-the-heart issues; ie. “it’s the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil, not money itself”, or “it’s okay to have money as long as money doesn’t have you.”. What makes us so confident that we are able to make those self-evaluations anyway? Jeremiah reminds us that the heart is desperately wicked and who could know it?

    To make matters worse, it turns out that money is evil and has been designed to enslave entire nations. Currency is debt and it is born out of usury. It does not originate from your government and they are frankly in as much trouble as we are on the subject (although highly complicit). This is where I will stop because it seems only about .001% of the population can handle the rest. If you dare, look ideeply into the monetary system (not just the US by the way, but 142 other countries), with your Bible open next to you throughout the process. If you are willing to come out from underneath the spell that money and its masters have cast upon you, you will never be the same, and neither will your relationship with your Creator. Most won’t let go, some will. Narrow is the gate…

  4. admin

    Thanks for sharing! I’d be interested to hear how what you have learned plays out in your life, or how you see that working. You may also be interested in reading my article Suffering and Poverty vs Health and Wealth: http://liveitreal.org/2012/04/suffering-poverty-vs-health-wealth/
    I only am concerned with money to the end that we can reach the world with the good news of Jesus. Jesus did use money, but in a supernatural way (Matthew 17:27 for example)! We do know that if we seek after His kingdom and righteousness all else will fall into place, and that is good enough for me.
    Thanks again.

  5. J Scott

    This is a retraining of the mind process. Your last paragraph is where the rub is. You perceive currency as something you control or something you decide to which degree you are concerned with it (in very small ways this is true). The big reality is much different. We have been trained to live under the spirit (grace and provision) of Mammon and it’s masters. As a result, we are like addicts that don’t know we have a problem. From the poorest to the richest, it matters not. We are under the control of demonic puppeteers. We even have the gall to attribute it to God when our personal lives, ministries, churches are financially healthy and vibrant, not realizing that this is not from Him (what fellowship has Jesus with Baal?). Currency is not neutral. It is born in usury and controlled/utilized by persons so evil that it would boggle your mind. We give currency it’s worth with our minds, hearts, time and energies, Christian and non-Christian alike. It has no value outside of that. Jesus spent more time teaching about money and evil than on any other subjects. But we don’t listen to Jesus much anymore.

    Consider this video for a comprehensive, practical history on how this happened:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwqUr7PSRO8

  6. Faith

    I liked this, but there is one thing that really bugs me. If God allows atrocities and evil acts (like in Job), then he becomes an accomplice to the evil. Kinda like the guy driving the get-away car in a bank robbery. Or the mother that knows her daughter is being abused by her boyfriend, but refuses to stop it because she is afraid he will leave her. And that doesn’t fit with a loving God. Could it be that Satan and humans are really in control of this earth rather than God? I think God is in control of his children’s lives if they let him be, but really that may be all that he is in control of here on earth….unless we can collectively give the control back to him like it was intended to be in the Garden. I think God can take a bad situation and heal that wound in us if we let him (use it for good), but it seems to me that he gives us the control (free will) as humans and he comes after we make our decisions and helps mop up the mess and make the best of it in our lives. This “theology” is not easy because it means our prayers don’t prevent evil from happening. It also means we are at the mercy of this evil world which would really make a lot more sense if we look around…we were after all promised as christians to experience suffering (“in this world you will have trouble”). Maybe God HAD control but then he gave it to us, so really he no longer has control even though everything on this earth is still his….just not any longer under his control. Like if my dad asked me to housesit for him while he was abroad…I would be in control of the house and everything that happens there, but the house and everything in it is still my dad’s. Obviously, my dad would hope I would take care of the house and treat people who come there in a friendly way, but he is no longer in control and can not be held responsible for what happens when he has given complete control to me. What do you think?

  7. admin

    That’s kind of what I was trying to get at in this article in a sense. God obviously isn’t on vacation from the world, but He did call us the hands and feet of Christ. So if we do not allow the Father to work through us, He is limited. WIth regards to suffering, you maybe interested in the article I wrote on it: http://liveitreal.org/2012/04/suffering-poverty-vs-health-wealth/
    Be blessed!!

  8. Rock Me I'm A Deist

    Scared and amazed me at the same time, in the first 6 ( an ironic number ) paragraphs, plus commentary by Faith. Took the words out of my mind. But then starting paragraph 7 ( heaven ? ) it went wobbly. I “hope” ( a word, I try not to use, like “faith” ) you don’t take this as a disrespect but as an exchange of idea(s), a conversation, if you will.

    Starting paragraph 7, “In the beginning”, ( I also clicked & read a little bit of the link, same ol same ol, Genesis version 99 millionth time. Decided to just scan through. . . Jesus, yada yada . . . Revelation, chaosssss, ob-la-di, ob-la-da, life goes on bra . . . The End! – Hmm, well that was “unique”! – See what I did “there”? 😉 )

    ( Back to “God in control”. ) Then comes the part about, God’s will or our will . . . ( Okay yes. ). Then, Jesus taught us to command the weather & diseases . . . ( Uhh, no go. )

    Yes – Agree on the paragraph about the questions : . . . not having enough faith to get healed ( ? ), God using tragedies to teach ( ? ) . . . , . . . we’re not supposed to suffer on earth ( ? ), . . . we could’ve done something more ( ? ). All great questions!

    Then, the supposedly, “I don’t know” response of people who are incessantly trying to make excuses for God. I thought you have me, there. You didn’t. Click on your Philippians 4:7 link. You’re still holding on to the quote unquote, “Word of God”. But as, Bart Ehrman Ph.D. Professor of Biblical Studies, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill said in History Channel’s, Bible Secrets Revealed: Lost In Translation, “the Bible maybe divinely inspired but there are human finger prints all over it.” And Marvin Meyer ( Chapman University ) from Discovery Channel’s Biblical Mysteries Explained: The Lost Gospels, has it, “The Bible didn’t fall from the sky. The Bible was finally put together by Christian thinkers who represented a particular point of view.” You’re still holding on to the idea that the Bible have the answers & is there for you even after explaining why you can’t explain all the calamities that had happened, are happening, and will be happening. So my opinion, you cannot claim, “I don’t know.” Vis-à-vis, Philippians 4:7.

    More so, “A relationship is based on communication and trust, not facts and knowledge.” ( ? ) Communication, at least a two way street ( excluding introspection ). If you have heard God’s literal voice talking with you. Time to visit the doctor or contact Guinness Book of World Records. Trust, doesn’t involve pain. Can you guarantee, I mean “trust” that God will make sure you don’t encounter pain for the remaining time of anyone’s life including your own? A relationship not based on facts and knowledge is a fairy tale. “Holy Bible”! ( Again, see what I did there? :p )

    “God OBVIOUSLY ( ? ) isn’t on vacation from the world” ? ? ? Who are we to decide when He goes on vacation? I’d go as far as God is on permanent vacation, that would explain an absentee God and I wouldn’t take that against Him even if let’s say I have an imaginary right to do so.

    “It’s allowed”, is always my father’s response and just about all Christians I debate with response when getting cornered, “It’s the gift of free will.” Then, I tell them, “Free will of the rapist. Not the free will of the victim. How about the infants born with AIDS because of the “parents” promiscuity.” That’s when my debaters scramble saying, “I know, it’s really difficult to understand”. All I can think is, “Speak for yourselves.”

    Don’t’ Worry God Is In Control with Mushroom Cloud photo. Feeling oh so blessed yet, are we? How do you square that mushroom cloud image with an Almighty, All Powerful, Merciful, Loving God who is in Control ? ? ? Reminds me of that, Footprints In The Sand poem/song,

    “But I noticed that during the saddest and most troublesome times of my life, there was only one set of footprints.
    I don’t understand why, when I needed You the most, You would leave me.”
    He whispered, “My precious child, I love you and will never leave you
    Never, ever, during your trials and testings.
    When you saw only one set of footprints,
    It was then that I carried you.” ( End of quote )

    I guess what’s left to say is, “God damn it, would you put me down already! What’s the point of carrying me after all?”

    I wish I’d thought of, “the phrase”, first, but someone or some others did . . . “prisonplanet”.com by Alex Jones, a Christian with a bone to pick on organized religion ( based on my googling). However I was told by a friend that, “Prison Planet” is a Scientology ideology.

    I “hope” I didn’t hurt anybody’s feelings too much 🙁 I was just googling for a picture of Christ or “God” with a saying, “God Is In Control.”, so I can prove that He or They Are Not In Control. “This year of the Lord”, 2014, ISIS, Ebola. And your mushroom cloud picture saying God Is In Control, is perfect for what I’m looking for, the proof that God Is Not In Control.

    In conclusion, if I haven’t mentioned, I’m a former confused Christian Catholic for about 33 years. Now I’m a clear enlightened Deist 🙂 for more than a decade 🙂

  9. Rock Me I'm A Deist

    To the commenter named, Faith :

    deism ( source Google ) : belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind.

    deism in Culture Expand
    deism [( dee -iz-uhm)]
    The belief that God has created the universe but remains apart from it and permits his creation to administer itself through natural laws. Deism thus rejects the supernatural aspects of religion, such as belief in revelation in the Bible, and stresses the importance of ethical conduct. In the eighteenth century, numerous important thinkers held deist beliefs. ( See clockwork universe.)
    Source:
    The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
    Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
    Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
    Cite This Source

    As reference to your last line “What do you think?”. For someone with such name, you should have more confidence or should I say, “faith” 😉 in your work. Great job! My opinion, veer away from the idea of, “Satan” & the “Garden” ( of Eden ), it’s along the lines of “Release the Kraken” 😉

    Faith : belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof
    Source : MS Word – Encarta Dictionary

    emphasis on the : “without logical proof” . Is that who you really want to be? What do you think? <3 😉

    Free will – When you pray to God to look out after you, help you, or dare I say bless you, isn’t it equivalent to :

    1. I know you’d say it’s a wish, a request, I’d say it’s a command, in any case it sounds like a suggestion to:

    2. Swap God’s Will in lieu of His gift of “free will” to you, which if you think about it, doesn’t that sound like taking a Christmas gift to the store, day after Christmas to exchange it because it’s not good enough for you. And I thought God is in Control when he gave that gift of free will to us. God said, "free will", my gift to you. Mankind's response, "Thanks but no thanks, it's worth nothing, I like Your Will better."

    Freedom of religion. I prefer not to be in any religion at all. And that’s one of the major reasons I love about United States of America <3 & The Founding Fathers <3 who came up with such rule <3 🙂

  10. admin

    Hey “Rock Me I’m a Deist”, I’m really thankful you took the time to share what you did, and I’m not just saying that. I go to a big secular university and have never had someone put out their thoughts in so clear and coherent a fashion since being here. No feelings hurt here, I’m honored for your thoughts!

    With regards to the nuclear bomb image, a friend of mine made that, and he meant it to be understood sarcastically 🙂

    I agree with more of what you say than you might think. Really the only place where I think we differ is in terms of our experiences (or lack thereof) with the supernatural today. I can send you some links to some of the healings and miracles that I’ve personally encountered if you like (like my mom getting healed of CFS, a man with a hip injury being healed), but I’ve found that if you’re a skeptic of such things, hearing things second-hand isn’t always the best way to go. That’s why I’m one to believe that a personal one-on-one relationship with God is paramount to it all.

    Thanks again for sharing!!

  11. Achie is Rock Me I'm A Deist

    Thanks very much for the sweet response 🙂 . I confess, I’m still trying to understand the rule of thumb, “respect all religion”, because if you think about it, if some person doesn’t see or apply a methodology in their own belief system it’s because they sound strange or doesn’t make sense, then the natural reaction conclusion is because it’s considered to be “flawed” in their own personal view, so how can you find respect in such a word or characteristic. For example, I know and hear some Christians who ridicule people who worship the sun or a rock. Anyway, with such a good-natured response or character such as you’ve shown, it’s hard not to respect such individual 🙂 

    Congratulations and I’m happy for you and your mom for her healing. I envy people who’s got access to the “fountain of life or miracle medicine”, let’s face it nobody wants to die although everybody wants to go to heaven. If only death is painless, I guess. I am tempted to believe and do believe there’s such a phenomenon although skeptical because if it’s such a reality then why isn’t it as popular as Taylor Swift, the Pope or Obama. Also the country wouldn’t be fighting about Obamacare.

    Here’s my problem with saying that such healings are God’s direct doing or Jesus Christ or angels. As we both agree, God is almighty, all loving, all merciful. But then, why are such healings only for the selected few and selected locations on earth, it’s an exclusive healing rather than all inclusive. In one movie, Seth MacFarlane mentioned, “Parkinson’s is just another way that God mysteriously shows us that He loves us”. I’m just now reading that it has become controversial. So this is what’s been happening, mankind randomly but surely will be struck with a debilitating terminal disease, so they ask God why them, then pray for healing which may or may not happen, if they do get healed permanently or even temporarily they’ll claim they’ve been touched by the hand of God, “blessed”. To make a long story short, if God’s idea of being in control is to love us in sickness an in health, then why do believers ask for healing, they should rejoice in excruciating pain because God loves them so much that He would allow pain to enter or linger when God have all the power to remove all the sufferings or not strike you with it in the first place.

    I’d characterize those healing phenomenon as embedded in the creation in the beginning, just like all diseases, but not a real time God intervention.

    “We’ll meet again soon, my brother.” ( Achilles to Hector – Troy )

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